ATLANTIC REGION MOTOR SPORTS
The governing body of amateur motor sport within Atlantic Canada
ARMS Homepage
It is currently Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:40 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Legends Cars @ AMP
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:25 pm 
Offline
4th Gear
4th Gear
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 620
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
I remember a while ago the Legends cars would come out to AMP for the JCM. What were their laptimes like?

I just got thinking, since I see them come up for sale regularly enough if they are a viable full-time racer at AMP, or would their smallness or design stop them from fitting in to road racing regulations with other cars.

Anyone else do a viability study on this? :lol:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Legends Cars @ AMP
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:28 pm 
Offline
ARMS Treasurer
ARMS Treasurer

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:10 am
Posts: 136
Location: Falmouth NS
I didn't do a study, but a new guy took the race school this spring and his car is a Legend. However, due to circumstances (work, etc.) he hasn't yet taken a green flag. Hopefully he'll make it out next year!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Legends Cars @ AMP
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:05 pm 
Offline
3rd Gear
3rd Gear
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 2:09 pm
Posts: 238
Last time the Legends raced @ AMP Cole Butcher did a 1:16.1.
They were also on a spec tire, federal? I believe


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Legends Cars @ AMP
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:13 am 
Offline
3rd Gear
3rd Gear
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:07 pm
Posts: 438
Location: Harrietsfield
i believe if they meet the INEX spec, they are good to go road racing. Talk to James Whitman about it. I'm not sure why more people don't road race them....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Legends Cars @ AMP
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:56 pm 
Offline
4th Gear
4th Gear
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 620
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
You are right, Leigh. Looked in to the ARMS GT regs last night and Legends cars are accepted as long as they meet current INEX standards. Seems there's a bit of freedom with tires (max 205 width on 13" wheels).

I also wonder why more people don't. Seems a solid and simple vehicle, and if you can do 1:16s in them then you're not in bad company class wise.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Legends Cars @ AMP
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:16 pm 
Offline
5th Gear
5th Gear
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:04 am
Posts: 1416
Location: At the track
Call me old fashioned but I'd sooner take an accidental hit in my FIA designed 1.75x.090 caged car at 2700lbs than one of those at 1250. Just seems like too much of a mismatch size wise to race door to door with in our current brackets. A spec class like at the JCM would be good though.

_________________
1999 BMW M Coupe #28 GT4 ARMS Road Racing
1995 BMW 332is #2 SMT ARMS Autoslalom

http://www.isiautomotive.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Legends Cars @ AMP
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:22 pm 
Offline
4th Gear
4th Gear
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 620
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
I wondered that too, Steve. The size difference was something I was concerned about. I also don't know the specs of the cages on the legends cars, but that would be something I'd investigate if I got committed to the idea.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Legends Cars @ AMP
PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:34 pm 
Offline
4th Gear
4th Gear
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 7:22 am
Posts: 505
Location: Hantsport, N.S.
How do the 'pro challenge' cars that sometimes race with us compare to the legends cars, safety-wise? I know nothing about either of these, but always sort of thought of them as sort of related under the skin.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Legends Cars @ AMP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:14 am 
Offline
4th Gear
4th Gear
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 620
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
I don't think they're wickedly different, just taking a casual glance over the regulations. The Pro Challenge cars are only ~300 lbs heavier, though I think their dimensions are a little larger. Definitely similar in concept with being a stock car powered by a motorcycle engine.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Legends Cars @ AMP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:14 pm 
Offline
4th Gear
4th Gear
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:56 pm
Posts: 847
Location: Enfield, NS
And here's where our rules need to be updated again. The Legends were added to our rules before we had bracket racing and all car classes had to be defined by a build set of rules. Now that we have bracket racing I wouldn't think the Legends have to meet "Current" INEX rules as that would eliminate any Legends car from coming out that wasn't currently oval raced and up to date. A Legends car today at AMP is simply a small, light, short wheelbase GT car, that will fit into a bracket.

_________________
Brian
VP, AMP
#51 Vantage Motorsports


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Legends Cars @ AMP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:22 pm 
Offline
4th Gear
4th Gear
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 620
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
I think Legends were considered when the bracket racing came in, considering they exist in the same doc as the current bracket racing regs in this format:

Quote:
1.1. SEDAN DEFINITION
The word “sedan” refers to all vehicles that generally includes “fenders over wheels” or “enclosed
wheels”. This includes production built sedans, coupes, convertibles, and trucks. It also includes
purpose built tube-frame and semi tube-frame race cars.
1.2. PERMISSIBLE SEDANS
Any sedan vehicle that meets the minimum ARMS safety criteria is permitted for competition. This also
includes station wagon, all wheel drive and turbo vehicles.
1.3. GUEST AND LEGEND CARS
1.3.1 GUEST CARS - Upon applying to the Race Committee, other series cars may run at a regularly
scheduled event as long as the vehicles meet their class rules and the ARMS Regional rules re
driver safety (section 5 ARMS Regional Road Race GCR) and vehicle safety (section 6 ARMS
Regional Road Race GCR and sections 5, 6, 7 and 8 of these GT Sedan Class Regulations).
1.3.2 INEX Legends CARS - Legends cars may compete with sedans as long as they continue to meet
current INEX rules and updates and conform to the ARMS Regional rules re driver safety (section
5 ARMS Regional Road Race GCR) and vehicle safety (section 6 ARMS Regional Road Race
GCR and sections 5, 6, 7 and 8 of these GT Sedan Class Regulations) and run a tire with a
section width not exceeding 210mm on stock 13X7 INEX wheels. NOTE Section’s 8.11.1
regarding Fire Systems and 12.13 regarding fenders will not apply to Legends.


I think it's more to easily capture the safety requirements as being equivalent if they're up to modern INEX standards. That's my initial take away from it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Legends Cars @ AMP
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:16 pm 
Offline
3rd Gear
3rd Gear
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:40 pm
Posts: 491
Location: Kentville
Andy Mitchell wrote:
How do the 'pro challenge' cars that sometimes race with us compare to the legends cars, safety-wise? I know nothing about either of these, but always sort of thought of them as sort of related under the skin.


Main difference is the tubing/frame size is larger in the Pro Challenge, and it extends forward supporting the front clip, where the Legends car front end is just held up by the frame rails. Also, full door bars in a Pro vice square tubing swing doors in Legends. As well, the chassis in a Pro Challenge extends to the full track width of the wheels, vice relying on collapsible bolt ons to keep a car from getting between the wheels on a Legends. I believe the longer wheelbase makes the Pro Challenge theoretically easier to catch when it decides to step the rear out.

One thing that keeping Legends in INEX spec does is keep the chassis within the engineered design criteria of the car. When it's faster because of an engine swap or slicks, my concern would be that the car speed could exceed the designed crash protection of the chassis.
Attachment:
Legends chassis.jpg
Legends chassis.jpg [ 145.37 KiB | Viewed 93 times ]

Attachment:
Pro challenge chassis.jpg
Pro challenge chassis.jpg [ 139.42 KiB | Viewed 93 times ]

_________________
Brent O'Connor
ASCC Member
MHPDC Volunteer
05 Subaru Legacy GT Track Wagon
2002 Pro Challenge
Kentville


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Legends Cars @ AMP
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:33 pm 
Offline
4th Gear
4th Gear
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:17 pm
Posts: 620
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
I think if you do something like an engine swap on a legends car then you'd fall outside the regulations that allow legends cars to compete with sedans. Would like need to do....something, considering the car would fall outside INEX standards.

The slicks are a different story since our regulations has provisions for it up to a certain size. Perhaps that was allowed on an understanding of the thresholds allowed by INEX and their cage tests. That's just speculation on my part, but I agree it is a concern worth thinking of.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group