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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 2:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:27 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:05 am 
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So it looks like a lot of us won't be staying at the Slemon Hotel because there are no rooms available there
Note to self - book room earlier next year

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:05 am 
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Mike Pettipas wrote:
So it looks like a lot of us won't be staying at the Slemon Hotel because there are no rooms available there
Note to self - book room earlier next year


I had to book a room at the Quality Inn and it seemed it was one of the last rooms, this was 2 weeks ago.

On a separate note, the banquet chicken what kind of chicken is it? I have dietary restrictions so I'm wondering if the chicken is spicy?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:17 pm 
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Andre wrote:
On a separate note, the banquet chicken what kind of chicken is it? I have dietary restrictions so I'm wondering if the chicken is spicy?

It's a chicken breast, seasoned and cooked on a BBQ.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Mike Pettipas wrote:
So it looks like a lot of us won't be staying at the Slemon Hotel because there are no rooms available there
Note to self - book room earlier next year


Somebody find me a large cabin for me and my extended family to rent somewhere that our dogs can roam (Like we did in the Kingston area last year) ...and I can free up 4 rooms at the Slemon hotel 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:23 pm 
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Yeah I just tried to book the last reasonably priced hotel room and they cancelled the booking 30mins later. Not paying 170/night for a place so it looks like I'm staying at linkletter campground.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:29 pm 
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Looking at the entry list, there must be something else going on!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Looks like ASCC numbers are down. I would probably return to Slemon if we got the speeds up a bit and got more runs in. The venue is perfect and PEI is a ton of fun. it's just too slowwwwwwwwwww and the runs are too longggggggggggggg


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:26 pm 
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7-8 more coming from NBSCC who are tardy on getting their registrations done... :?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Greg Sweet wrote:
Looks like ASCC numbers are down. I would probably return to Slemon if we got the speeds up a bit and got more runs in. The venue is perfect and PEI is a ton of fun. it's just too slowwwwwwwwwww and the runs are too longggggggggggggg

Someone submitted a course design for Slemon. It was a faster course. I was working on a couple course designs. I'll find out Sunday which one we're doing. Was thinking about doing 6 runs this year, but might be 8 with the smaller grid.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:54 pm 
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Stacy Chapman wrote:
Mike Pettipas wrote:
So it looks like a lot of us won't be staying at the Slemon Hotel because there are no rooms available there
Note to self - book room earlier next year


Somebody find me a large cabin for me and my extended family to rent somewhere that our dogs can roam (Like we did in the Kingston area last year) ...and I can free up 4 rooms at the Slemon hotel 8)

Stacy

If you find that cottage, please let us know so we can jump on those rooms of yours :P

Ming Wong wrote:
Greg Sweet wrote:
Looks like ASCC numbers are down. I would probably return to Slemon if we got the speeds up a bit and got more runs in. The venue is perfect and PEI is a ton of fun. it's just too slowwwwwwwwwww and the runs are too longggggggggggggg

Someone submitted a course design for Slemon. It was a faster course. I was working on a couple course designs. I'll find out Sunday which one we're doing. Was thinking about doing 6 runs this year, but might be 8 with the smaller grid.

Both of those things (faster, more runs) would be awesome 8)
Slemon tends to have too many elements in general, so it never had much flow
You guys have the most experience with the big US events. Emulating those events in course design would be a move in the right direction IMO

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:19 pm 
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A 60 sec course on that pad would be amazing. If we were able to do what we did at Shearwater and then add 20 seconds of the same it would be perfect. 6-8 runs a day would also make the trip/cost worth it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:49 am 
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I'm sorry if that first post was a little crass, but i'm happy to hear of the input you guys have taken into making the event better. Sounds like everybody is on the same page of wanting more/faster runs. Can't wait to hear how it goes


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:26 am 
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I think the issue most of us have is that the course feel never changes. Layout changes but basically the same elements get reused every year:

-Slow-medium sweepers with pinched exits, usually a kenny cone on the outside that is hard to spot until you're already exiting. I know they all have different radii and entrances but it just feels repetitive by the 4th or 5th sweeper.
-Far right end usually even tighter sweepers. I think one year it was a kink and drove much better
-Fast slaloms are usually just full throttle in a car with grip
-Very few high speed transitional elements or offsets. I think there's usually one or two on the far left end before turning around, but I always found them quite tight.
-Day 2 start usually painfully tight and just serves to make people mad. It sucks to throw away runs because the first 5s of the course.
-90s courses. For me it's not even the amount of runs, I'm happy with 4. 90s courses are just too long and have too many elements. Build a good 60s course and no one will complain about length. The most positive comments I received about a course where when it was ~35s long!

I don't even think the course design is "bad", I had a blast at my first slemon event and convinced friends to go the next year. But after 4 years of events I stopped looking forward to it. It's the one venue in this region where we almost have a true blank slate. Considering new submissions is great. If you're open to submissions from outside MMSC I'd submit one for 2018. If you aren't that's fine.

I know it hasn't been mentioned, but coming from an organizer perspective MMSC does a great job putting on a huge event like Slemon. It takes a ton of work to get a big event like slemon organized. And it's usually a thankless job.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:27 am 
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Scott Montgomerie wrote:
If you're open to submissions from outside MMSC I'd submit one for 2018.

I'm open to submissions. I've been told Roger Johnson designed a course for Slemon years ago. Send it to me and I'll bring it to a club meeting. For Slemon, course designs are done well in advance of the event which is different than most events. Would need it before June.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:05 pm 
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I've heard that 'some' people have slept in their cars at the runway as well... When there is a will there is a way.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:54 pm 
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In the 10-15 years ASCC has been using AMP as a regional site, how much of the course design and included elements really change year to year?

Slemon too long? "Fastest in Stock Class" Times...

2016 AMP 82.737secs
2016 Slemon 71.447 secs / 70.295 secs

2015 AMP 99.29 secs
2015 Slemon 99.23 / 100.00

2014 AMP 90.059
2014 Slemon 91.997 / 92.529

Maybe a bigger issue for Slemon is that there are too many cones used? The "Sea of Cones" effect can cause all kinds of depth perception issues, impacting the aueoslalom competitor's ability to look well ahead - as we're taught to do in this sport.

One of my favourite things about Slemon is that it is big enough to include so many elements that you have to drive it more with instincts rather than memorizing every inch of it as on a closed-loop/endlessly repeating road racing track. As they say in rally: "I would rather drive 50 corners once each than 1 corner 50 times." True, some elements are copied from previous years (what course isn't) but certainly not always in the same order/size/shape... just perusing the course maps going back to 2003.
My opinion: As far as actual implementation of the design goes probably could lose some cones and keep/enhance the chalk line.
As far as course design and length of Slemon go, don't change a thing.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:59 pm 
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From memory I just drew the course (more or less) from the last 5 years :orglaugh:
It's the boxed area that I find most repetitive and annoying
That said, I love Slemon in general, I think it's the best event around

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Mike Pettipas wrote:
From memory I just drew the course (more or less) from the last 5 years :orglaugh:
It's the boxed area that I find most repetitive and annoying
That said, I love Slemon in general, I think it's the best event around

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I'll grant you that the general route Slemon takes is similar from year to year (and on such a big course that should help reduce the OCs for regular attendees... !) but since we only use it once a year how can that really be a problem? On the one hand, some of us say "I want a shorter course. It's always too long."... on the other "I want to use all the site, it's so big, awesome, and flat". The only way for the two opinions to meet that I can see is with a huge figure-8 doing 130km/h on the straights. oh... wait, ... I see where you're going!.. ;)

Here are the Day 1 the last five years course diagrams: Seems like there are significant enough differences in included elements, radii, slalom spacing, etc in that section you've identified from year to year. There's one big inverted "U" that's been there the last 3 years. It's location and the elements immediately before and after it have varied though. Maybe taking out some cones would alter our perceptions of the how it all works?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:03 pm 
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The second from the top is new to me, I must have missed that year
You're right though, there is more variance than I had thought

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:29 pm 
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I absolutely loved the old courses of the early 2000's. Fast (often hitting 3rd gear) and flowing, taking full advantage of the vast space and giving us something different from all the other events of the season.

Since we've moved to the concert pad only, the courses have changed to more resemble typical MMSC club events with 90° turns everywhere and walls of cones, only longer in duration.

Would love to see Slemon return to the spirit of the old days, with fast flowing courses, big sweepers, taking advantage of the space. Make it the equivalent of a karting track with some slaloms thrown in. That would bring the smiles back. 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:34 pm 
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Scott McIntyre wrote:
I absolutely loved the old courses of the early 2000's. Fast (often hitting 3rd gear) and flowing, taking full advantage of the vast space and giving us something different from all the other events of the season.

Since we've moved to the concert pad only, the courses have changed to more resemble typical MMSC club events with 90° turns everywhere and walls of cones, only longer in duration.

Would love to see Slemon return to the spirit of the old days, with fast flowing courses, big sweepers, taking advantage of the space. Make it the equivalent of a karting track with some slaloms thrown in. That would bring the smiles back. 8)



YES!!!! YES!!!!! YES!!!!! SO MUCH YES!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:01 pm 
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A bunch of us pre-marked the course on Sunday. I'm heading to Summerside tomorrow. Everyone else will find out Friday/Saturday what it looks like.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:13 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:01 pm 
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With all this talk about course design and length, I figured that it would be worth mentioning that Slemon is an ideal location for a "Pro-Solo" set up. (2 cars starting off a drag tree with identical mirrored courses) The timing gear might be an issue but S@S could be "co-hosted" between two clubs as the area doesn't really fall under the specific jurisdiction of any of our current clubs.

Another thought would be to have two separate 45sec courses similar to how SCCA nationals and the 2017 CAC ran. 4 runs in the morning on one course, then 4 runs in the afternoon on the other course. This way would almost feel like getting four events in one, which would definitely make the higher entry fee (and cost to attend) easier to swallow.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:35 pm 
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Scott McIntyre wrote:
I absolutely loved the old courses of the early 2000's. Fast (often hitting 3rd gear) and flowing, taking full advantage of the vast space and giving us something different from all the other events of the season.

Since we've moved to the concert pad only, the courses have changed to more resemble typical MMSC club events with 90° turns everywhere and walls of cones, only longer in duration.

Would love to see Slemon return to the spirit of the old days, with fast flowing courses, big sweepers, taking advantage of the space. Make it the equivalent of a karting track with some slaloms thrown in. That would bring the smiles back. 8)


You mean these types of courses when they had/used the far end "cross"? Yup, no question they were fast! But it's been my understanding that far area has not been available to use since '08. If that's not the case, then, yeah, they should reinstitute that area! It was also in the early 2000's that the airport fenced off the old paddock area access, which has created some design restrictions based on a single Course Entrance/Exit and the locations of the Start/Finish, Pit and Timing Vehicle ever since.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:56 am 
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Brian Jarvis wrote:
You mean these types of courses when they had/used the far end "cross"? Yup, no question they were fast! But it's been my understanding that far area has not been available to use since '08. If that's not the case, then, yeah, they should reinstitute that area!

Yes, those courses. But I'm not suggesting that the asphalt runway needs to be used again. Just that similar fast flowing courses of the old days could be designed on the current concrete pad as well.

As an aside... Note the distinct difference in the course layouts above versus your earlier post. The old layouts look smooth and flow well whereas the newer ones are choppy with endless 90° turns.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:15 am 
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Brian Jarvis wrote:
since we only use it once a year how can that really be a problem?


Because Slemon is the most expensive regional to attend and we don't have goldfish memories. Even splitting a hotel room the weekend is still going to be around $300 without even getting into fuel and food cost. I'll be 100% honest: I'm going this year because I sit and 2nd overall and want to see what I can do. And if there is a new fun course, I'll probably try and convince friends to start going again.

Everywhere but Slemon and Shearwater we are restricted by layout or total area, usually both. When I start a new course I delete the whole previous course and start again. There are parts of the layout that make sense - start/finish will always be near the center of the pad, the course always has to accomodate multiple cars safely, and for organizer sanity the day 2 course will be a reverse with minor changes. Other than that it's the biggest blank slate we have. When I do a shearwater course I delete the entire course and start fresh.

Brian Jarvis wrote:
some of us say "I want a shorter course. It's always too long."... on the other "I want to use all the site, it's so big, awesome, and flat".


Those aren't mutually exclusive. I think a really good 60-70s course would still use the entire concrete pad to be done safely and still allow 2 or 3 cars. The course area at the CAC last year wasn't actually much different from slemon.

Brian Jarvis wrote:
Here are the Day 1 the last five years course diagrams: Seems like there are significant enough differences in included elements, radii, slalom spacing, etc in that section you've identified from year to year. There's one big inverted "U" that's been there the last 3 years. It's location and the elements immediately before and after it have varied though. Maybe taking out some cones would alter our perceptions of the how it all works?


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Like I said, I'll put my money where my mouth is and submit a design next year.

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