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 Post subject: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:25 pm 
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Location: Milford
Hey everyone,

Its AGM Topic time!
Ill start of with a few little things. It was a great year for racing (If you ignore all the serious World/Life Issues we are dealing with) We had decent turnouts to all 3 events, For the most part everyone had really good spirit, We had Sponsors!!!, And we were turning people away at the JCM as we were at the 250 person limit. I learned a lot and had a lot of experienced people give me advise or help me sort stuff over the year. So Thank you to all.

Main things I took away this year....
1-- Maybe half of the racers read the sup-regs... lol No Joke. I get a lot of question that can be answered by reading the Sup-Regs. Please read the Sup-Regs. Tell me if I messed something up.
2-- We have a series that people want to come and see!! With the help of a bunch of people we had people excited to come to the track and watch some racing.
Talked to some of the fans and we have some great ideas for 2021.
3-- I CAN NOT do this myself. I/We all want this to grow and be a monthly raceday/Weekend that people want to come see and be involved in! To do this we need to involve some more people and reduce the weight on the current ones.
4-- I make mistakes as often as anyone else. I knew going into this that id mess some calls up and I did. Sorry to those affected by them, but in the end I own them.

Alright, Topics!!

1- RED FLAG 5MIN pit-stop rule.
Option #1- Race time keeps going and your pit time keeps going. No working on the car until Red Flag is switch to yellow
Option #2- Race time keeps going, Your Pit time keeps going, No working on the car until the GREN Flag is waved
Option #3- Race time Keeps going, Your Pit time STOPS, No working on the car until the GREEN Flag is waved at that point your 5 min stop starts again.
Option #4 Add them in if you have one but Race time must keep going.

2- New TRAC Series Race positions. More discussion needs to be done with these with the race committee and ARMS but id like to have 3 positions filled.
#1-- Race organizer, Can not be a RACER or our Tech guy! Drivers meeting, Pre-Grid calls, Keeping us on time, and keeping the day going.
#2-- Sponsor liaison, Secure Sponsorship, Get them passes to races, make sure there Sponsor stickers are right Etc.
#3-- Media Output, Pretty sure we have this filled already. Jenn Earl is doing a wicked job getting TRAC out there.
#4-- ARMS Race director. Ill stay in this seat. The race committee and myself will still work as we do, sorting out Rules, weekend issues, and so on.

3- Saturday/Sunday racing.
Need to work with whoever takes over the ARMS High performance Solo director seat. The idea is we race Saturday and Sunday. Same amount of races we do now but spread out over the weekend more. Making less downtime for volunteers and more time for competitors to enjoy the day. Ideas from many involved here but its all just spit-balling at this point. Get the 1 hour back into the spotlight more. Include a Grid-walk for the fans if we can during lunch hour. Mix Time Attack and Racing into Saturday and Lapping and Race on Sunday.

4- Announcer. Until this year I never really remembered that the P/A also has a FM frequency. Some Co-Workers came out to all 3 events this year and found they knew way more then the people around them Because I had half-given them a idea on what was going on. Making it much more enjoyable. So if we have a few signs up saying we have a F/M broadcast and do simple updates at the start of each On-Track session that will help people understand what's going on. Would like a constant announcer for Races but we haven't had much luck with that over the years.

5- Break-out times. I personally feel 0.5 Secs decrease is the right amount for GT3 back but leave the 1:09.999 between GT1-2.
GT1 1m, 09.999 or faster
GT2 1m, 10.000 and slower
GT3 1m, 13.500 and slower
GT4 1m, 16.500 and slower
GT5 1m, 18.500 and slower
GT6 1m, 20.500 and slower

6- Paid Paddock spots. Talked about it in the past but never followed up with it. I would like to get sARL and TRAC to do the same size paddock spots but didn't work out for last year. If we can get equaled out and spots painted at AMP it would look much nicer and help with everyone pulling in. I am thinking $100 for the year. We also need to get back to $10 a day or $20 weekend electricity (General feeling is NO on the power charge)

7- Bring on your Ideas! We have a pretty good base for racing now. Hardwork by many over the last few years has sorted out many issues. While we have more to fix, we are making great Progress.

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Watch out for porcupine exiting turn 9!!!!!!

AX-1995 Honda Civic CX FSP
RR-1995 Honda DelSol VTEC GT4
2009 Canadian Solosprint Champion.
ARMS Race Director. Race@armsinc.ca


Last edited by Joel N on Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:49 am 
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On Joel's points 2,3,4.....

I 100% agree. We need to make each race weekend an "Event". Our current 5 races jammed into a WAY to small of time frame is flawed for many reasons (safety is one of them, no time to properly check cars over between races). I feel we can do a much better job. And most of the ideas cost absolutely nothing. Making it an EVENT will draw out more people, period. Racers, lappers, Time attackers, marshal, fans.....

I think one of the positions joel mentioned also needs to be the events coordinator - anything happening on a race weekend, not directly linked to racing on track, so the gate, food truck, parade lapping, ride along's, getting other series (Legends, Mini Stocks) to come out, podium, sat night entertainment and camping.

I think it would be fairly straight forward to engage all who come thru the gates, and in no particular order, we need to have and promote:

-2 day event, sat and sun
-2 nights of camping, fri and sat
-on track done at 5pm sat - so time to tidy cars up, then socialize.
-always have a sat night event - pot luck, movie, band, etc.
-always have a food truck - easier sell with 2 day event i'd assume
-race would have quali and 1 round of deb and pen on sat, another round of deb and pen and sunday, 1 hour after lunch. maybe event have 1 special weekend where we only have 1 round of pen and debert sat, sun is warm up in the am and 2 hr enduro after lunch.
-1hr races always preceded with a grid walk - cars on front straight, echelon style (makes it very easy to organize cars, just need grid spots on wall in chalk) - make this a 30min marshals break, so fans, marshals, crew and drivers get to socialize and enjoy the cars! I think this will be big for a few reason - it will make "making" the race more attractive to the racers, the 2 day schedule will allow teams more time to fix cars to make the 1hr, and it will be really really cool for spectators - nothing better than putting a little kid in the drivers seat for a pic - and sometimes with the current schedule we are so busy we just dont have time to do that.
-have exhibition runs at lunch - rally car, go kart, solo 2 on front straight, mud truck. also do parade lapping at lunch again.
-ride alongs - we all saw how amazing this can be with Nic and the radical - we can do a raffle or ticket draw (you get a ticket with admission) for lunch time ride along each lunch - we dont all have passenger seats, but any car that does and it up for it we can do. Doesn't have to be a race car - lapper, TA or race.
-announcer + live stream feed (likely needs to be the same person), also using the FM system we have.
-over the 2 days mix time attack, lapping and race. Great opportunity for everyone to intermix. exposure for all groups to other groups. Obviously there are some people that do race and time attack - ben and nic being 2 of them - but I talked to both of them, and they are all for the 2 day weekend. We can make the schedule work....
-have mini stocks on the card for a raced, 2 if they will come. Same with Legends. Ive been told they want to come back. They need a small purse, but I believe the extra fans they bring cover that at the gate. So yeah, that is slightly risky financially, but I feel we need to try.
-big social media presents - Jenn has got the ball rolling and things are looking good in that department!


The events this season have shown us there is potential to make things better, I feel right now we are stagnate with our current format. With a little change, and one or 2 people to help Joel with organization, we can have some pretty fun events in 2021.

As always, there will be some who oppose this....to them I say try to look at the bigger picture - all my above thoughts are to try to help our sport and track grow. We are not taking about anything expensive or complex - we are adding a few things (most of which, at some point, we have already done in the past), juggling what we already have - key to this working/happening will be finding someone to help Joel, and everyone being willing to be open to seeing what we can accomplish!


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:28 am 
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I'm glad to see us talking about all this, as it looks promising for the track!

1) As far as I'm concerned, if race time continues, so does everything else. Pit stop time, and allowance to work should also.

3) I get the idea, but personally I prefer the one day schedule. Most of us have things in life other than racing, and giving up a Saturday night & Sunday 5-6 times a summer is difficult enough, with a two day schedule I'd also have to take most of Friday off work to pack up, and get set-up at the track in-time for Saturday morning. Plus it's just that much more inconvenient planning/packing meals, etc, for an extra day.

4) Ideally it'd be someone with a decent knowledge of the competitors, their cars, and some history... If i'm not racing, I could do it, but I'm sure there are better choices.

5) Why not make all brackets a uniform 3 second step for simplicity sake?
GT1 1m, 09.999 or faster
GT2 1m, 10.000 and slower
GT3 1m, 13.000 and slower
GT4 1m, 16.000 and slower
GT5 1m, 19.000 and slower
GT6 1m, 22.000 and slower
With GT-6 being a slower time, you might draw out some older/slower/inexpensive cars and older racers, knowing they might have someone to dice with.

6) Really? I'm going to be billed an extra $20 for running my air compressor twice (about 90 seconds of charge up time) or if I need to turn on an LED light for 30 minutes while working on something? Shouldn't this sort of thing be included in the entry fee? Do other tracks charge for an electrical hook up?

7) Last year there were a handful of rule changes that I never heard anything of until halfway into the Race workshop.... I was told they were going to be enforced and would be posted to the ARMS website. Well, despite my worry, it never happened. So PLEASE, if there are going to be rule changes, find a way to circulate the info more than a few minutes before the workshop, and if a rule change is voted as accepted, actually make sure it gets into the rule book.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:12 pm 
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1) Red flags - Option 1 or 2 seem fine, 2 is the most logical in terms of reducing the crazy advantage one has for already being in pits under red. For option 3, I see it as an issue for both T&S and the competitors. On the competitor side you aren't going to know the exact moment the red flag is thrown, so stopping the pit timer is going to be a major guess. On the T&S side, how is the policing done?

3) 2 days every weekend is not something I'm really in huge favour of. Do it once or twice per year and make a big event out of it - cars & coffee style but sprinkle in saturday racing. But every weekend, no. You'll need extra volunteers (if I'm racing 2 days, I'm not going to be helping TA at all), and you'll need a performance solo director for ARMS who is not involved in racing OR time attack. I'm very skeptical of any plans that require more volunteers. Also, are we already going back to 5 weekends? The initial plan for 2020 was 4 (plus JCM) after the 2019 season attendance.

4) Agreed for GT4, no real opinion on the rest. I was pretty unhappy when the GT4 breakout was moved to 16s at the start of the year, the track IS faster but it is not consistently 1s faster for every car.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:19 pm 
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Wow, lots of optimism and good thoughts there! In fact, too many for me to comment on right off without taking time to think things through.

I sorta like the two races Saturday afternoon, two more on Sunday morning and the 1-hour (or longer) being the main Sunday afternoon event. But I know some folks don't want to camp out, and maybe only want to spend one day at the track per event. Maybe switch our current one series/two series fee schedule to a one day/two day model? I dunno if this would work or not... but worth considering.

Breakouts: For purely selfish reasons I'd like to see the GT4 breakout at 16.5, not 16. That's probably just me, though. I think it's sorta fun to be able to flirt a little bit with breaking out in qualifying, so long as the number chosen doesn't pose too much of a threat to screwing up the actual races. Just moving the breakout out of range for everyone will lead to more spending on tires, engines etc. until we get back to the same 'flirting with danger' point again.

Agree with Dustin, the race workshop is probably not the place to spring new stuff on us for decisions (or to be making new stuff up on the spot, lol). But hey, sometimes things just happen, and it's better to talk about it than not. Prior warning is always a good thing, though.

Kudos to all those involved in the promo efforts this year, I saw lots of cool stuff happening, all good (even though it probably doesn't affect me at all).

Mitch


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:26 pm 
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Hey Dustin,

#3, My goal would be to have Race stuff happening around lunch. Either just before or right after. That way Racers who have to work late Friday can still have time Saturday Morning to drive to the track. This may change, once we sort out a schedule and If the Time attack organizer wants to do it.

#5- Costs. If GT4 is moved to a 1:16.000. 4 out of 5 of us will be spending money to get back to that 1:16.000. The point isn't to Make competitors Speed up there cars, Its to balance the new Asphalt. For most of us that was really just a 0.5 Sec increase. Lots of people went faster then 0.5 Secs but if you look at there times from last year they were constantly going faster every raceday or there cars were improved over the winter. Anything outside that for Myself was on Low fuel as I could go faster.

#6, Yes this is how most Tracks Deal with power. They even give you a wrist band for your extension cord. Not sure how we deal with people who only use power for a few Compressor fills VS people who plug there trailers in and Campers in.

#7, We will always do our best to get everyone some time to see the changes we plan to make. I do not remember any rule changes last year that would actually have affect people But maybe I am forgetting one/two.

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Watch out for porcupine exiting turn 9!!!!!!

AX-1995 Honda Civic CX FSP
RR-1995 Honda DelSol VTEC GT4
2009 Canadian Solosprint Champion.
ARMS Race Director. Race@armsinc.ca


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:29 pm 
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Oh, and I like thought of guaranteed parking spots. I'd probably pay the hundred bucks a year without thinking too much about it, but that might bother some. Is there any way you could guarantee a parking spot (for free) to those who pre-register by a certain date, and leave all the last-minute folks to scramble? That might encourage pre-registration at no cost to the organization... just thinkin' out loud, don't shoot me. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:33 pm 
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Scott Montgomerie wrote:
1) Red flags - Option 1 or 2 seem fine, 2 is the most logical in terms of reducing the crazy advantage one has for already being in pits under red. For option 3, I see it as an issue for both T&S and the competitors. On the competitor side you aren't going to know the exact moment the red flag is thrown, so stopping the pit timer is going to be a major guess. On the T&S side, how is the policing done?

3) 2 days every weekend is not something I'm really in huge favour of. Do it once or twice per year and make a big event out of it - cars & coffee style but sprinkle in saturday racing. But every weekend, no. You'll need extra volunteers (if I'm racing 2 days, I'm not going to be helping TA at all), and you'll need a performance solo director for ARMS who is not involved in racing OR time attack. I'm very skeptical of any plans that require more volunteers. Also, are we already going back to 5 weekends? The initial plan for 2020 was 4 (plus JCM) after the 2019 season attendance.


4) Agreed for GT4, no real opinion on the rest. I was pretty unhappy when the GT4 breakout was moved to 16s at the start of the year, the track IS faster but it is not consistently 1s faster for every car.


#1 I would agree with Option #2. reduced the advantage but only a small amount.

#2 Those will be the biggest hurdles. (Volunteers). Brian P, Myself and you have been running the Time Attack days for the last few years and we are all racers. Either Time attack needs a Event organizer like race does or a Director who isn't a competitor. Not interest Myself in any more weight and wouldn't want any added to Brian P or any other Director/Organizer.

#4, Yup.

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Watch out for porcupine exiting turn 9!!!!!!

AX-1995 Honda Civic CX FSP
RR-1995 Honda DelSol VTEC GT4
2009 Canadian Solosprint Champion.
ARMS Race Director. Race@armsinc.ca


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:38 pm 
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Andy Mitchell wrote:
Wow, lots of optimism and good thoughts there! In fact, too many for me to comment on right off without taking time to think things through.

I sorta like the two races Saturday afternoon, two more on Sunday morning and the 1-hour (or longer) being the main Sunday afternoon event. But I know some folks don't want to camp out, and maybe only want to spend one day at the track per event. Maybe switch our current one series/two series fee schedule to a one day/two day model? I dunno if this would work or not... but worth considering.

Breakouts: For purely selfish reasons I'd like to see the GT4 breakout at 16.5, not 16. That's probably just me, though. I think it's sorta fun to be able to flirt a little bit with breaking out in qualifying, so long as the number chosen doesn't pose too much of a threat to screwing up the actual races. Just moving the breakout out of range for everyone will lead to more spending on tires, engines etc. until we get back to the same 'flirting with danger' point again.

Agree with Dustin, the race workshop is probably not the place to spring new stuff on us for decisions (or to be making new stuff up on the spot, lol). But hey, sometimes things just happen, and it's better to talk about it than not. Prior warning is always a good thing, though.

Kudos to all those involved in the promo efforts this year, I saw lots of cool stuff happening, all good (even though it probably doesn't affect me at all).

Mitch


For the 2 day VS 1 day thing, Its something we can look into for sure but For 2021 I think the goal would be to run a few doubles and a few singles. Give everyone a chance to see how they feel. Maybe focus the doubles on July and Aug as they are our Hottest racedays normally.

And for the parking spots idea, ill mark it down. We could add a line for spots in registration but still would have people more interested in just paying for a spot and knowing it will be there. Myself included in that. lol.

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Watch out for porcupine exiting turn 9!!!!!!

AX-1995 Honda Civic CX FSP
RR-1995 Honda DelSol VTEC GT4
2009 Canadian Solosprint Champion.
ARMS Race Director. Race@armsinc.ca


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:03 pm 
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I think if we can do 1 or 2 two day events, that would be an excellent start. Just remember, its a chicken and egg thing.....we need more volunteers, but if you don't change anything, will any more come out? The hole idea is to build excitement and involvement - to get more racers, volunteers, fans, marshal, everything.....I find a lot of solutions in life get blocked by "the way its being done now...." Like putting my live video systems in race cars, so coaches don't have to ride along (and get hurt or worst in crashes)- a big hurdle was the passenger seat blocked the camera!! frustrating, but now most of the Ferrari Challenge NA field run our system and coaches don't ride in the cars any more.....took a few coaches to have a little faith, now its better, safer and the norm.

But I hope we can all agree to give the 2 day event a try once or twice in 2021, and see if we can make something really cool.

FYI, I've never been to another race in Canada that was not 2 day. Tremblant doesn't care about the competitors so they only have one price - but CTMP/CASC does have a 1 day entry fee, which we can look at for the 1 or 2 two day events we may do. Surely 2 more days per summer is not that big of an ask - its not like you are going to the dentist! You get to race your car at AMP!!!! Also remember with more exposure, comes more sponsor opportunity - series sponsors and you will be more able to sell to your own sponsors. If we just keep doing what we are doing now, we really have nothing to sell. Just a bunch of cars running around, and the common person has zero clue what we are doing.....if we want to grow, we have to think past our own needs, and maybe go a little outside the box.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:08 pm 
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Not a race license holder, but.. ditch the evening practice, alternate time attack and lapping in with the races. 2 day events have drawbacks, but it's common everywhere else. Plus it allows for us to be able to expand and do other things a lot easier, should we get to that point.

Thinking something like this:

SAT
9-930 Lapping
930-10 TA Prac/Qual
10-11 Race Practice
11-1130 Lapping
1130-12 TA w/o passing session 1
12-1 -----Lunch-----
1-2 Race Practice
2-230 Lapping
230-3 Debert Qual
3-330 Pennfield Qual
330-4 TA w/o passing session 2
4-430 Debert Race 1
430-5 Lapping
5-530 Pennfield Race 2

SUN
9-930 Race Practice
930-10 T/A Practice
10-1030 Debert Race 2
1030-11 Lapping
11-1130 Pennfield Race 2
1130-1230 TA with passing
1230-130 -----Lunch-----
130-2 Pre grid for 1hr
2-3 1 Hour
3-4 Lapping
4 Podiums for T/A and races

Everyone gets the same track time as they would normally, racers, T/A people, lappers, whoever. Allows for room to extend the AC to a 2 hour race, if people wanted. The important thing is to plan and make sure everyone is on the same page when switching sessions, it's where we lose the most time on bike weekends. You have 1 or 2 people that are in charge of both days and all types of sessions. That can be easily done. Me and Kevin Stoneman run a bunch of practice rotations, 4 heat races and ~15 races etc over a 2 day bike weekend, with one person in Timing. We deal with all the scheduling concerns, registration concerns once it's closed, classing issues, penalties, starts, grids etc. Kevin also does any bike track days, and it's not really rocket science to figure out how to rock back and forth between different types of things that are going on. We have a lot of smart people involved in the car scene, and we can do whatever we want without filling out another half dozen volunteer roles on a race weekend - I'm saying this as a volunteer up here for many years.

As far as paying for electrical, unless AMP is charging ARMS for it, it's nickel and diming folks. I know it used to happen long ago, and other tracks do it, but no other user groups charge individuals here for electrical hookups.

sARL and ARL have been doing paid paddock spots for years and it works amazingly and excellent and there is no arguments over someone taking a spot or not. This needs to happen and should have happened years ago. 20 foot wide spots should be adequate - pull straight in and you're good. People also have the option of paying for more space - a few groups get together and book several paddock spaces together. It's not complex and works well.

Anyways, i like the positive attitude and I think changing stuff is good!


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:40 pm 
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My thought about offering guaranteed parking spots to early registrants wasn't either/or with the yearly rental business - you could do both (guaranteed spot for everyone who wanted to pay, offer the pick of the rest of the open spots to non-renters who register early).

You'd need some sort of interactive map of available parking spots to go with the on-line registration form to really do that slickly, but that doesn't sound all that difficult to do to me.

BTW, I'd pay the hundred bucks, just to never have to worry about it... but I said that before. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:44 pm 
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Electricity - my understanding is that track renters don't get a bill for electrical, and that AMP raised rental rates to cover electricity use. If we need more money to pay the bills, then raise the race fees, charge non-crew/non-volunteers with campers an overnight camping fee.

Edit - the key is that other TRACKS do charge for power, not the RENTAL ORGANIZATION. Tracks provide staff to take care of it, lock the power boxes etc.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:49 pm 
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1. for the red flag deal,

I'm in strong disagreement that time keeps going for the 5 min mandatory stop under red....pit stop time should stop, red up to green up.....if you dive in on a red, its a completely free stop....why should there be an opportunity for a completely free stop? I'm all good with dive ins on pending yellows, fair game, win some loose some - and its not a free stop - you save some time. Back to red stops - technically, if you dive in the lap it goes red, the field is reset to the last green lap order - guess what, you were not in the pits the lap before - so your stop does not count by current regs ( (thats my take anyway).... but this is next to impossible to police, hard to know who was in already, and who came on the red lap..... as we don't have a pit in loop.....but possible t/s can shed some light on that one.

So i'm strongly in favor of pit stop time STOPPING when it goes red. No working on cars, no changing drivers. Only takes a stop watch for teams to deal with this, its not complicated. T/S needs to know the duration of red up to green up period, and needs to note which cars were in the pits when the red came out. For this reason, should bring the cars on the front straight, not pit lane, keep a separation.

Missing an entire pit stop by lucking out on a red, in a race that requires pit stops, is just not right in my books. If we are going to not stop the pit timer under red, than we should allow mandatory 5 min stops to commence under safety car as well.

We could also look at stop windows - would make driver stints a lot more even for people sharing cars. Example would be in a 1hr race, stops must be done between 25 and 35 min into a race. 10 min window....and never close the pits for 5min stops. Takes strategy out pretty much, everyone will stop at around 30 to 33 min to try to wait for a yellow....

2. 2 vs 1 day events:
Current 7 on track session in 1 day - may not be an issue for GT4 and above - but certainly for GT1 and Pro Stock - there is zero time to check the cars over. Gas and go, deal with any pending issues at lunch - maybe get to eat lunch......Its just not a safe way to do it. Anywhere else i've ever been at a race track in my entire life, there is WAY more time between sessions. Yes, we do it, and we make it work, but personally I really don't like it, and its starting to wear on me. Yes i can drive less - but that is less revenue for race. i don't think this is the way forward. Maybe we do the GT split all year except enduros, with the bulk of the GT4-6 stuff on sundays....I dont think there will be any GT1-3 guys opposing 2 day weekends with more time between sessions....


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:57 pm 
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This is not from me, this is from JAY MACPHEE (he was having trouble setting up an account):

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Its really great to see the effort being put forth to take steps to broaden reach and improve on the series. Joel's work as so many others has been incredible to date. Opening things up to additional help and ideas is the only path to growth.
From a organizational stand point it can really be broken up into two pieces.
1.) Race related
2:)Buisness related.
-Race has a ton of things to manage, rules, structure, timing and scoring, tech and safety. Not to mention driver enrolment, training Etc etc..
-Buisness side of trac series should be focused on marketing, sponsorships, events, facility and revenue etc..

To run a full program that could handle weekend like the JCM on a regular basis would require several people in rolls in each. Clearly all of this is one effort that goes into both sides but dividing tasks helps people focus on making their aspect of the weekend work well while others focus on the rest.

As a racer I would find it difficult to have a role that requires a lot of work during the weekend but would be happy to contribute on something like sponsorship management which could be done in off season and before and after events. This in my opinion would have to be tied very close to marketing and event planning. People in those roles could potentially help with on site sponsors. Attracting real outside investment requires a sponsor to see a real tangible benefit to their business through exposure. Great example is almost every race series in existence. parts for trucks pro stock series, weather tech series, etc..
As well being part of the broader effort from all groups involved.

I have said in the past any good organization needs to run like a business even if its volunteer run not for profit. Fans, sponsors and racers are the customer. Good management creates growth by producing a better product!
Better product, more customers!
Attracting more racers, spectators and other groups like potentially legends cars would be hugely beneficial in the long run. However managing crowds, amenities and increased car counts has to be planned and can’t be done by one person!

As far as sat/sunday sounds good to me. Social side of racing is key for all involved. For those that can’t do a whole weekend then they miss one race. Not a big deal. Maybe point system has to be amended or something but honestly I don’t pay much attention to that stuff. Lol.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:02 pm 
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Another Topic: JCM Grid. I vote for grid by qualifying. what we are doing now is dangerous and reckless. I have been saying this for many years. I said it this year on the grid.

I realize the mixed up grid is tradition and fun for the marshals, but it's time has past. Lets introduce the grid walk, great time to socialize and have some fun for all ages.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:29 pm 
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I am all for a 2 day weekend; for the reasons others mentioned already.

Keep in mind not everyone lives within 1-hour of the track, those coming from away would generally spend Saturday night at a hotel or camp, why not have a more relaxed, enjoyable event where you can nut and bolt your car, play with setup, fix an issue, or just socialize; or even volunteer.

IMO; Spreading the event over two days makes the entry fee feel justifiable as money well spent. Still the same amount of racing (or more) still the same entry fee, yet i feel like i get my monies worth spread over 2-days. Helps to sell sponsorship or let the sponsors know about the potential double exposure they are now receiving (Subjective). Going away to other venues feels the same regardless of the added expense for travel, hotels etc. Many do it for slalom, Digby and Slemons and really enjoy it.

Paying extra at track side always feels like nickel and dime collection. Make it easy to do business with, include all sundries in the bill. How many of you look at a car service bill and get pissed off seeing extra charges that were not quoted !

Love the positive feedback and forward thinking...


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:28 pm 
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Alright, Ill start working on a 2 day schedule and ill include Brian P in it as well for Time Attack and Lapping. See if we can come up with something prior to the AGM.

The 2 day schedule will also allow us to add in other stuff over the day much easier. IE, Mini Stock tour, Legends and so on. Id like to build a package as well for other series to come and race with us. This way there no questions as to what we expect from another series to join us for A event.

I also agree with leigh 100% with the 2 day events. I have only ever been to MoSport end of last year, but the extra time between races gave us plenty of time to check the car over and make sure it was safe and lots of time for drivers and teams to have a good time.

Jay is right, We need to treat it like a business as well. I think we have a good group of people who may have some interest in helping with that. Those jobs would have no requirements at the event.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:27 pm 
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I'm with Leigh on the red flag stops. Pit time needs to stop otherwise it is a massive advantage. If we run a safety car for the 1 hrs then really a red flag situation is likely to end the race anyway so I hope we don't waste 2 hrs debating this at the meeting. But in the event we have one, no breaks in pit lane, stop the work and pit time, revert running order to lap prior and get on with it.

I'm am 100% behind 2 day weekends and the flexibility it will provide. Yes it will make it a bit more hectic a couple evenings before heading up but I'd trade that for an extra night camping and ditching the Sat evening practice. The late practice kills any real chance of hanging out up and down the paddock.

.5 second is fine. I rage lapped and broke into the 15s in the cool evening practice but it was a stars aligning type lap and certainly won't happen mid July in debert 2. I've never wanted cost or rules creep to occur so I will do something to my car to bring it back in line.

Oh and yes ditch the current jcm grid procedure for obvious reasons


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:32 am 
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%100 Agree JCM should be qualifying order. It's never been more "fun" for me starting near the front of the JCM, I just worry about being run over by faster cars trying to get to the front. A couple spots isn't going to change the outcome of the race for us.

If you want to do something to make it more fun you could give the faster cars - laps(probably won't go over well) or split the field for two trophies?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:39 pm 
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Ben B wrote:
%100 Agree JCM should be qualifying order. It's never been more "fun" for me starting near the front of the JCM, I just worry about being run over by faster cars trying to get to the front. A couple spots isn't going to change the outcome of the race for us.

If you want to do something to make it more fun you could give the faster cars - laps(probably won't go over well) or split the field for two trophies?


I am completely in favor of recognizing the lower classes during the JCM and the 1hr races as we do during our other races. I’ve always felt we fail to support those that choose to run within our class structure when we don’t recognize those classes during post race presentations. The effort required and the talent to finish ahead of your peers is the same.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:53 pm 
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Ben and Brent - i agree and i dont...

There are no breakouts or classes in JCM, so you would have to add that in. Which is fine.

But, if we do champain and trophies for every class, does the win loose some meaning? Not sure. It s pretty special race to podium at, I don't think we should take that away...

Heres an idea - 2 classes, 1:14.99 and under is one class, other class is above....if at any time during the even you go under, you are top class, no exceptions. Do a proper podium for each. Having 6 podiums will take away from the event "special" ness... 2 would still be something to shoot for... thoughts?

Brainstorming here!


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:37 pm 
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Or just do an under two liter class... screw the breakouts! Nic would win both... :-)


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:07 pm 
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Sort of semi-related, I guess - do we want to talk about split grids in the 'normal' series?

What is the maximum 'safe' number of cars on track at one time at AMP? What's the maximum safe lap time differential?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:53 am 
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Andy, I already mentioned it above.

I think if we do it, it has nothing to do with number of cars. We split, its in stone, we stick to it, we advertise it. For sprint. Enduros always combined.

What is the downside of splitting, even if there are not enough cars? You are still gonna race the same cars....

I feel we need to try it for a season. I think we will attract more cars if we split.

Tremblant splits religiously - Mosport flip flops randomly. It really sucks when combined at mosport - gt1 vs gt6 the speed differential is so massive there....I think this keeps some away at mosport...

I think you get more cars out in the classes when split (if you stick to it and advertise so people know that's what you are doing). People with expensive fast cars (and not necessarily fast drivers) are more likely to show up, and it makes the GT4 overall win stand out. GT4 is a great race! Why not stand on your own?

Again, what are the downsides? With a one day event, to me its a no brainer as it also fills the void...with a 2 day event - we could bias gt4-6 running for sunday as there was some people in those classes not wanting 2 day weekends. GT1-3 I've heard zero people against 2 day weekend, we want more time between sessions....


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:25 pm 
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Sorry Leigh, I've been (unfortunately) a bit tied up with real world stuff lately and lost touch with the goings on in this thread. I didn't realize you had already discussed it, and only brought up the split grid thing because I didn't think anyone else had.

My (sort of random) thoughts after a quick re-read:

FM radio thing - good (but probably depends on finding some interested soul to run it/do the talking).

Paid parking spots - yeah, I'd do that.

Two day weekends - like the thought, and am willing to try. Not sure there's enough keeners to actually make it work, but you won't know unless you try.

Paying for electricity - give me a break. Charge the overnight campers if you want, but it's sort of nit-picking for those of us that basically only run a compressor or impact gun for a minute or two each race day.

Mini stocks (or legends) during our race days - sure, that would be cool. No problem so long as it doesn't cost the rest of us extra.

Grid walk before the 1-hour - Again, no problem from my end... but not sure we have enough spectators to really make it worthwhile. A great thing if it actually brings some spectators out. Like the two day weekends, we won't know until we try.

Red flag business - hurts my head too much to think every option through. You guys debate it and just tell me what the rule is going to be. Please try not to make it too complicated to figure out though.

Split grids - Yeah, I sort of enjoyed the split grid thing when we tried it this past year. I used to think being in a big group and being lapped was fun, but it's not as big of a thrill as it once was. And a serious accident (high speed) involving lappers would be even more unfortunate than a slow speed coming together on the first lap of the JCM, IMHO.

Cheers,

Mitch

PS - I offered to organize some noise monitoring for our races this past year, but never got around to it what with Covid uncertainity and all. The offer is still open for next year though, if we still want to do that. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:19 pm 
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I agree there should be at least 2 classes for the JCM.

Maybe still have an overall, like Lemans, but also have class wins in there too. I think its important to give the folks that put effort into doing their best, but can't challenge for the overall due to pace, something to shoot for.
Sure, can do things to somehow makes the cars equal at the end, adding laps to fast cars or whatever, but to me that is silly, and just fabricating the result.
Make a 2nd, and maybe 3rd class something to shoot for and give some meaning.

Split grid for these classes makes total sense, qualifying for start position should now be part of this race, its too competitive now, good or bad, depends how you see it, but its not safe anymore to have a random grid.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 AGM Topics
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:12 pm 
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Paul Machan wrote:
Maybe still have an overall, like Lemans, but also have class wins in there too. I think its important to give the folks that put effort into doing their best, but can't challenge for the overall due to pace, something to shoot for.


This was pretty much my thought. Keep overall trophy and podium, give out something for the top finisher in each GT class. That's only 6 extra plaques and it keeps the ceremonies fairly short. I don't think having a "slower" overall trophy accomplishes much. It would make one class happy depending on the breakout laptime, and do nothing for the rest.

Agreed on the grid. I'm at the point where if the random grid continues I will just start from the pits. I have no interest in getting caught up in people making stupid decisions on the opening lap.

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